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If Miami Heat Sign P.J. Brown Should They Trade Udonis Haslem To Sacramento Kings For Mike Bibby?



August 22 07

The Miami Herald report on the Heat’s interest in PJ Brown:

Pat Riley called ex-Heat power forward P.J. Brown to try to convince him to join the team. Agent Mark Bartelstein said the Heat’s a strong contender for Brown if he decides not to retire.

My Quick Take: Signing P.J. Brown won’t give the Heat a third scorer. But it would give them the trade bait to acquire one. And another scorer, like Mike Bibby, is what Miami needs most.

Brown rebounds, defends, and hustles. Sound familiar Heat fans? It should. Brown is an older version of Udonis Haslem. He could replace Haslem in the starting line-up and man the power forward spot for one final season.

Most importantly, signing Brown would make Haslem expendable and provide the Heat with an asset to trade for another scorer. After all, South Beach needs a third star, someone to take the pressure off the dynamic duo of Shaquille O’Neal and Dwyane Wade.

Sacramento makes sense as a possible trading partner. The Kings are publicly talking about the playoffs. Talk is cheap. The playoffs are unlikely. Truth is this team is rebuilding. And trading Bibby’s expensive contract expedites the process.

There are a couple of complications. First, Sacramento already has several power forwards: Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Mikki Moore, and Kenny Thomas. One of these players would have to be moved. Second, the Kings would probably want more than Haslem.

Agree or disagree? Should the Heat sign Brown and trade Haslem for a third scorer? Get at us in the comment box below with your thoughts.

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31 Comments: If Miami Heat Sign P.J. Brown Should They Trade Udonis Haslem To (...)

Posted by

on 09.25.2007		 NO WAY.... .
Posted by
heatrrocking
on 08.28.2007		 dont do it riles think about it .
Posted by
Peezy
on 08.27.2007		 Blogspot, you are correct. We are definitely at an impasse if you believe Brad Miller has anything to do with the Kings future; he can barely jog up and down the court, let alone set a pick-and-roll for Bibby anymore. He’s an oft-injured, former image of himself at this point. Further, he’s another atrocious contract that sets us back a couple of years. I don’t mention him in trade scenarios because no one has interest in him either, much like the maligned Miami Heat roster—at least until his contract becomes an expiring one. My philosophy is that the Kings need to become more athletic to compete in today’s NBA, which we seem to agree upon. Mikki Moore is a step in the right direction for the Kings. Artest is more versatile than Mike Bibby, Udonis Haslem, and Posey combined. I stand my ground on this one—he’s not for sale unless the right deal comes along. I see him as part of the rebuilding project. If he is happy, he will play like an All-Star. The Kings have some nice, young pieces to build around, assuming the Kevin Martin deal gets done in the near future (5 years / $55 million). I believe they will need to sign, draft, or trade for a franchise type point guard who is MUCH better than Mike Bibby. We’re talking someone who is a floor general here; a player who leads—I envision this guard to be in the mold of Baron Davis (only healthier). The Kings will need a true leader at the point guard to replace Bibby. I used the example of Arenas because he seems the most likely to reach free agency among all top tier point guards in the 2009 free agent class, based on his feuds with Eddie Jordan. Essentially my point is: if you have someone of the caliber of Baron Davis at the point, Kevin Martin at the 2, Artest at the 3, Mikki Moore at the 4, and Spencer Hawes at the 5, with players like Francisco Garcia and Abdur-Rahim on the bench, then you have a legitimate squad that could challenge for a ring. This team would be young, offensively and defensively minded, athletic, and composed enough to compete with anyone in the league. Shedding the Bibby, Miller, and Thomas contracts is essential to creating such a possibility. Do you now see where I’m coming from? .
Posted by
ANTHONY
on 08.27.2007		 DONT DO IT RILEY .
Posted by
ANTHONY
on 08.27.2007		 EXACTLY PJ IS A OLDER VERSION OF UDONIS EXACTLY OLDER EVERY 1 GM FOR HIRE I AGREE WIT U 110% WADE AND UDONIS R THE ONLY ONES ON THAT TEAM FROM THE 2003 SEASON WHEN THIS PRETTY MUCH WHEN THEY LOST IN THE 2ND RD TO THE PACERS WHY GET PJ FOR A 1 MORE SEASON WHEN INSTEAD U CAN HAVE HASLEM FOR 11 MORE SEASONS THINK ABOUT HEAT FANS .
Posted by
ANTHONY
on 08.27.2007		 BIBBY SUCKS ARTEST SUCKS HASLEM IS AWESOME AND YOUNGER THAN BOTH AND MORE ATHLETIC THAN BOTH IT WOULD BE VERY STUPID 4 THE HEAT 2 SIGN PJ WHO WAS A GREAT PLAYER AT A TIME BUT IS GOING ON HIS 40 S AND I THOUGHT THE HEAT WERE TRYING TO YOUNGER SO THEY CAN KEEP UP WITH THE BULLS AND THE PISTONS THEY DID GOOD BY SIGNING SMUSH PARKER HES YOUNG AND GETTING A LOT BETTER GETTING PJ AND TRADING HASLEM 4 BIBBY AND ARTEST WOULD NOT ANY SENSE BECAUSE U GET OLD a-------PLAYERS WHO CANT EVEN RUN THE COURT ANY MORE ARTES THE F***** TROBLE MAKER WHOS JUST WILL COME 2 MIAMI AND BE A RICKY WILLIAMS WHO ENDS UP GETTING IN TROUBLE ANY WAY SO BOTTOM LINE IS KEEP HASLEM F*** ARTEST,BIBBY,AND PJ HASLEM DOING THE DIRTY WORK GETTING LOOSE BALLS REBOUNDS STEALS AND CAN KNOCK DOWN THAT 14 FOOTER FOR 8 OR 9 PPG PJ AINT GONNA DO THAT DIVING ON THE FLOOR 4 LOOSEBALLS BIBBY SUCKS ANY WAY AND ARTEST WILL DO GOOD 4 ABOUT 2 MONTHS AND BLOW IT BY GETTING INTO TROUBLE LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES EVERY YEAR WHILE HASLEM SITTING IN SACREMENTO MISERABLE WHILE THE HEAT R THROWING AWAY THERE SEASON ... I WOULD HATE TO SUCH A GREAT PLAYER LIKE HASLEM BE MISERABLE IN SACREMENTO .
Posted by
b4hoops.blogspot.com
on 08.26.2007		 I think we’re at a little bit of an impa-------in our discussion Peevy. We fundamentally differ in our view of the current Kings situation and roster. From what I understand, you think that the Kings are to the point where they need to break it all up and rebuild. If that’s the case, I can see validity in your argument that they should try to trade the largest contract on the team, which is Bibby’s, and start over. In that case though, I also think they should try to trade BOTH Bibby and Artest and really start from scratch. However, I think that the all the Kings need to do is retool at this point. I think they can win again, and make the playoffs, with Bibby, Miller, Martin, etc. Obviously, with Posey signing with the Celtics, the deal that we were discussing isn’t going to happen, but perhaps there are other deals out there to get a more athletic PF and SF for Artest. I don’t think the team would be championship caliber, but I do think that they can get into the playoffs and make a run over the next 2 years while Bibby’s large contract expires. As for your Arenas scenario, I have to respectfully disagree. I don’t think Arenas will leave Washington anytime soon, and I don’t think Washington would allow it. .
Posted by
peezy
on 08.25.2007		 I respectfully disagree. Basically, the crux of this situation boils down to what could make this trade equitable for both teams. Since the Heat are looking for a third player to help carry the load with Shaq and D Wade, I would imagine that they’d prefer Artest to Bibby because he’s more versatile, cheaper, and there’d be less obstacles to getting the trade completed. However, since the Kings are looking to improve their cap situation while rebuilding, they’d prefer to give up a big contract, like Bibby’s, in addition to one of their many expensive yet undervalued power forwards (Abdur-Rahim, Thomas, Miller). I phrase these scenarios as such to demonstrate what each team would consider the best case situation. I’ll give kudos to whomever (Riles or GP) comes out of this situation on top, assuming anything happens at all. I explicate the situation this way to show you that I disagree that trading Artest makes the most sense. If Petrie is going to gut the roster, he may as well dump as much salary as possible. The Kings are past a "retooling phase." On the Contrary, they are in a "tear it down and start over again phase." Trading discount premium talent (Artest) for little in return only makes the hole the team is in deeper. The only positive that could come out of this trading scenario is salary relief (from the Kings perspective), which would revolve around Bibby. Your argument has focused around Artest’s image in Sacramento as the franchise player. With Bibby gone, he’d serve as the temporary featured attraction—he’s not a long-term solution. Assuming we got a lot of salary relief in a Bibby trade, we could acqire a marquee free agent a year or two down the road. While keeping Artest on the roster, we could use him as a integral role player on the new team. Imagine the following team: Gilbert Arenas (PG), Kevin Martin (SG), Ron Artest (SF), Mikki Moore (PF), and Spencer Hawes (C). Trading Bibby would allow us to clear up enough money to sign Arenas, whereas trading Artest wouldn’t free up nearly as much money, and we’d still be stuck with the gaudy Bibby, Thomas, and Miller contracts. By trading Artest for Haslem, we’d have just added another guy like Thomas/Abdur-Rahim to the team while not improving our salary cap situation at all. Again Blogspot, as you can no see why, I respectfully disagree. While Artest’s skills may not fit in with the current team, they certainly would on the team I have just proposed as a future squad two years down the road. .
Posted by
b4hoops.blogspot.com
on 08.25.2007		 Great response on your end Peezy. And believe me, I pretty much agree with everything you said. On the surface of it, trading either Mike Bibby or Ron Artest for what Miami is offering looks very lop-sided in favor of the Heat — even if the Heat were able to throw in a future 1st round pick in either trade. But, I believe the Kings need to trade Ron Artest as the first in a series of moves that could slowly revamp their roster without having to completely gut the lineup and start from scratch. I look at it this way: at this point Ron Artest’s value is higher relatively than Mike Bibby’s. You wouldn’t trade a stock when its down, why trade Bibby when his value is low? Let him play another year, as the main man on the team, with Artest out of the way, See if he can get back to his previous near all-star level. If he can’t, fine, you have 1 year left on his contract after this year, and you can trade him next summer in a variety of scenarios. Even if another team may not want him for his talent, they will want him for his expiring $15 million contract — expiring contracts as you know are huge bargaining chips in the NBA. Once both Artest and perhaps Bibby are gone in a year, this would leave the Kings with a leaner roster (salary wise) and flexible enough to bring in the young Center or Point Guard that they need. As for Bibby himself, I think he’ll be back to form next season. As you know, Bibby thrives on the pick and rolls with Brad Miller. And with both healthy, they will get back to those pick-and-rolls on the wing where either Bibby comes open for a shot, or Miller rolls for a layup or 15-footer. Those two players, when healthy, are two of the deadliest pick-and-roll players in the NBA because they can both shoot the ball. I think the Kings will be fine, but first they need to decide on an identity for this team. Last year was all over the place. Do we play defensive basketball? Do we run? When and who do we post up? And, I believe that the fact that Ron Artest’s game didn’t fit in with the talents of everyone else on the team, they suffered. .
Posted by
peezy
on 08.24.2007		 Good points blogspot. You have clearly proven that we can talk about this on a reasonable level, beyond raw emotion and fan biases. You have done your home work. What you must realize is that although I’ve moved on to the Bay Area, I’m originally from Sacramento, and therfore, watch the Kings every game like it was my religion. I’m well aware of the ill-advised shot attempts taken by Ron Artest; however, his shooting percentage from the floor increased by over 10% from the first half to the second half last year. And his three point percentage increased by 15%!! Artest does not make sense as the primary option, but he at least showed significant improvement as the season progressed. He took so many shots last year beacuase he’s a winner by nature and no one else stepped up for the team with the exception of Kevin Martin. Further, the Kings are trying to build a team that will take these offensive responsibilities away from Ron. Enter Kevin Martin, Spencer Hawes, and hopefully some impressive young point guard to lead the offense when Bibby departs. You misunderstood how I feel about Bibby—I love Mike Bibby. He brought excitement to our city, but his role doesn’t suit the team to how its evolving, and it showed on the court last year. He needs big men that can pa-------to set him up with an open shot. The Kings don’t have this anymore, and opposing teams smothered him last year. As a result, his shooting percentage suffered mightily. The Kings need a pure point guard in the new era, someone in the likeness of Kidd, Nash, Deron Williams, or Chris Paul. When I spoke of washed-up role players, I was referring to Posey and Haslem, not our franchise point guard that Miami fans desperately want to get their hands on. Posey’s one steal a game doesn’t compare to Ron’s three and neither does his price tag. Posey nor Haslem are even in the same stratosphere as Ron’s defense. Bibby is still capable of greatness (age 29 this season); this is precisely why I said that it would take A LOT from the Heat to get him. After coming off of a bad season, his trade value is extremely low and an expensive contract doesn’t help. Just look at the only suitors for him, the lowly Miami Heat and Cleveland Cavaliers who are both DESPERATE for a point guard regardless of his paycheck. Considering all of this, you can’t trade Bibby for what Miami has put on the table because this won’t make the team any better. If we are going to execute a trade that makes the team noticeably worse, we must get rid of two of our bad contracts (Bibby and Thomas). You need to look at how many weak big men there are on the Kings roster one more time before you suggest that we trade Bibby for Haslem again. Just listen to it, Bibby for Haslem, yeah right? Trading Artest for Haslem doesn’t make sense either because we don’t need salary relief for him. Basically, the Heat can’t offer the Kings jack s--- for our two potential all-stars aside form salary relief, expiring contracts or draft picks. Any argument that attempts to explain the qualities that Haslem or Posey would bring to the team in exchange for Artest or Bibby is asanine, and therefore, useless. This precisely why either trade won’t be happening. .
Posted by
b4hoops.blogspot.com
on 08.24.2007		 Before I get into why I disagree with you peezy, I will say I do agree with you on one thing: Artest is a pretty good value at the salary he’s making. Having said that, I completely disagree that Bibby is past his prime. Why, because he had one down year? Even in this so-called down year he averaged 17 points, 5 assists and 1 steal a game. Yes, he shot 40% from the field overall and 36% from 3-land. But, guess what Artest’s shooting numbers were last year — 44% from the field overall and 35% from 3-land (...and Artest’s shots are closer to the basket, being that he’s a post-up small forward). Just the year previous, Bibby averaged 21ppg and he’s in his prime at 29 years old. Riiiight, Bibby is washed up. I also disagree that Haslem and Posey don’t play defense. Posey averages 1 steal a game in his career and generally picked up the other team’s best offensive player at the SG and SF spots last year for the Heat. Finally, I’m not sure how many Kings games you watched last year, but it was pretty evident that every time Artest touched the ball the Kings offense slowed down to a crawl. He would frequently put up ill-advised 3-pointers at the most inopportune times, and usually miss. He is nowhere near the clutch shooter that Bibby is, AND, to top it all off, I ask again, does any franchise really want Artest as the "face of the team" draw that sells tickets? If Bibby is traded, instead of Artest, that is exactly what will happen in Sacramento. .
Posted by
peezy
on 08.24.2007		 Are you kidding me, trade Artest to the Heat? For what? Your logic makes about as much sense as Michael Vick’s defense that he doesn’t like to gamble—all the evidence points against you. The Kings would rather trade Bibby than Artest for many reasons (i.e. Bibby doesn’t play defense, his contract his absurd, his production is down, he has more value in the trade market as a third scorer, and he’s not a pure point guard on a team that doesn’t employ the motion offesne anymore). The direction of the Kings has changed and Artest fits much more into the new scheme of things than Bibby. First of all, Artest is the ONLY player that plays defense on the team. Why would you want to trade that away for guys like Udonis Haslem or James Posey who don’t even know what defense is? Further, Posey is old and Haslem can’t replace Artest’s hustle, leadership on the floor, scoring, or his defense. You’re basically proposing that the Kings trade a player who’s in a different cla-------altogether for crappy washed-up role players. I don’t want to hear you say anything about his character, either. Artest is worth the headaches if you can’t trade him for something better. Pro athletes are pre-madonnas anyway; you’re always going to have to deal with some sort of drama associated with them. Basically, until the guy goes Michael Vick or OJ on you, you keep him unless you can trade him for equitable value in return, especially since he’s cheap labor. The Heat should focus their efforts on Bibby, and the only reason the Kings would be interested is salary relief. The Heat have nobody on the roster of interest to the Kings, aside from Shaq and D Wade of course. Artest gives tremendous production at a cheap price; he’s unavailable to you guys. .
Posted by
pistol pete
on 08.23.2007		 I dont agree with sign and trade deal but a couple of powerhouse trades would put the heat in good shape.TRADE #1 Wayne Simien and a draft pick FOR TWOLVES Gomes. This makes for the both of them because Simien could possibly start or back up jefferson in Minni. Trade #2 A. walker and doleac to the grizz for swift and stoudamimire, swift could take some pressure off shaq and haslem and stoudamire would help at the point. I know it doesnt sound like much but stoudamire, Wade, gomes ,haslem and shaq would punish teams in the paint and on the break with swift in at the five while shaq sits out 30 games a year. it would help alot.. save the heat. .
Posted by
b4hoops.blogspot.com
on 08.23.2007		 I agree with some of the posters, the Miami Heat should trade Udonis Haslem and possibly James Posey (in a sign-and-trade) to the Sacramento Kings for not Mike Bibby, but Ron Artest. I’m not sure what Petrie is thinking, but it makes no sense to keep Artest around as the lone defensive stallworth on a team full of players (Bibby, Martin, Miller, Abdur-Rahim, etc.) that play absolutely no defense. Artest does not fit this team! Unless, you’re looking to trade the entire team Petrie, find a good trade for Artest. Besides, if they were to trade Bibby for Haslem (et al), the Kings would become Ron Artest’s team by default. Is anyone serious in suggesting that any NBA franchise would like to have Ron Artest as its marquee player, and the draw that sells tickets?? Bibby is the face of the franchise. He needs to stay and Artest needs to go. The Kings need to get back to their motion and pick-and-roll offense with Bibby, or overhaul the ENTIRE roster. There are no other options. .
Posted by
Heat fan
on 08.23.2007		 What is P.J. waitting for...hay dud make up your mind, you are NOT that Good! any way we all Know that. .
Posted by
rzurzel
on 08.23.2007		 Bibby would make the game in Miami. He shoots about 17ppg& makes a game. Gaining Bibby would turn the squad shorter & then there will be no one to rebound. I think that acquiring Bibby would have more positives than negatives yet Haslem is a tested part of the squad. It would be great to have him+acquire Bibby but if it can’t be done than trade Haslem. As 4 third scorer they should just let Dorrell play. No matter what they can’t involve him into trade. Near future in Miami is still unstable-if they want Bibby they should get him fast & fit him into team’s strategy because if the Heat won’t win this year then next opportunity may not come too soon. .
Posted by
nick
on 08.22.2007		 why would the kings want haslem if they already have shareef and kenny thomas as 4’s. plus who will play pg for the kings? .
Posted by
Fan
on 08.22.2007		 I juste feel sorry for SUNS ,if P.J goes else where. .
Posted by
DWADE#1FAN4LIFE
on 08.22.2007		 MIAMI WILL NOT SUCK!! THEY HAVE D WADE!!!! HELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO! WADE IS THE BEST THERE IS. I HAVE FAITH IN THE HEAT.YEA SHAQ’S GONNA RETIRE. EVERY 1 WILL RETIRE EVENTUALLY.THE HEAT STILL GOT WADE N SHAQ. THEY WILL GO 4 A BIG RUN AND I HAVE FAITH THEY’LL BE CHAMPS AGAIN.I WANT THE HEAT 2 GET MIKE BIBBY BUT WHAT WILL PJ BROWN DO? I THINK HASLEM IS BETTER. I JUST HOPE THE HEAT WILL BE CHAMPS AGAIN. NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. I LOVE U WADE!!! .
Posted by
wal
on 08.22.2007		 mia will suck again anyway shaq soon retire .
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Oly Sandor is an NBA analyst and sports journalist based out of Vancouver, Canada.After years of the free-lance game, Oly Sandor is bringing his unique brand of NBA analysis exclusively to (...) More  






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© 2008 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved. NBA Blog : If Miami Heat Sign P.J. Brown Should They Trade Udonis Haslem To Sacramento Kings For Mike Bibby? - Updated on 08.22.2007