Oakland’s All-Time Greatest Point Guard: Gary Payton or Jason Kidd?November 18 07 I was raised on Gary Payton posting smaller guards, intimidating opponents through his defense, and talking smack whenever possible. During his prime, Payton was The Man. Quite simply, the best defensive point guard of all-time. On offense, GP combined the best of both worlds; he could score and set-the-table for others.
ESPN is reporting that The Glove has pretty much retired. There is nothing left to accomplish; next stop the basketball Hall of Fame.
Instead of figuring out Payton’s place on the list of all-time greats, HoopsVibe opted for a hometown comparison.
Oakland, like New York, has a history of breeding point guards. In fact, they’ve produced two all-time greats: Payton and Jason Kidd. And basketball fans have spent hours debating between Payton’s defense and Kidd’s passing.
Now it’s your turn. Who’s best: G.P. or J-Kidd? Read the post, make your decision, and get at us in the comment box with your thoughts.
The Argument For Payton:
- Payton had a unique skill-set. He could take any point guard down-low, spread the floor with his mid-range jumper, set-up teammates, and dominate on defense. Few point guards ever possessed such a complete game.
- Payton has been slept-on. His Sonics fought through the ultra-competitive Western Conference to qualify for the NBA Finals during the Michael Jordan era. And the green-and-gold pushed the Bulls to six games. In 2006, Payton won an NBA Title as a back-up for Miami.
- The numbers: All-NBA First Team in 1998 and 2000, All-NBA Second Team in 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1999, All-NBA Third Team in 2001 … All-NBA Defensive Team 1994-2001, NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1996 … career averages of 16 points, 7 assists, and 2 steals …nine time All-Star.
The Argument Against Payton:
- Payton, fair or not, earned a reputation for causing trouble. As a rookie, he alienated Michael Jordan and even got into a nasty dispute with former Seattle owner Howard Schultz.
- Payton pimped himself out towards the end of his career, playing for several sub-par teams before landing with the Heat.
The Argument For Kidd:
- Kidd is a classic, pass-first point guard similar to Magic Johnson. He involves teammates and makes those around him better. Kidd is also the greatest rebounding point guard of all-time; helping him stack triple-doubles like Oscar Robertson.
- In 2001, Phoenix traded Kidd to New Jersey for Stephon Marbury. Talk about lopsided. With J-Kidd running the offense, the Nets qualified for two NBA Finals, while the Suns sank with Starbury.
- The numbers: All-NBA First Team in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2004, All-Second Team in 2003 … All-NBA Defensive Team in 1999, 2001, 2002, and 2006, All-NBA Second Defensive Team in 2000, 2003, 2004, and 2005 … career averages of 14 points, 9 assists, and 7 rebounds … 5th all-time in career assists.
The Argument Against Kidd:
- Kidd struggles with his outside shot. Opposing defenses often invite him to fire away from the outside.
- Kidd has had his share of off-court problems. In Dallas, there was the Tony Braxton thing. In Phoenix and New Jersey, he’s had some unfortunate incidents with his wife. With the Nets, he also tried playing GM, forcing the club to sign Alonzo Mourning to a disgusting contract.
The Verdict: Payton by a whisker.
Why: I love both players. Their individual accolades even out and you can disregard Payton’s 2006 NBA Title because he was a reserve. Here’s the difference: Payton’s Sonics pushed the amazing Chicago Bulls in the 1995-96 NBA Finals, competing against one of the all-time great teams. His own Seattle squad could be the best NBA team never to win a championship.
New Jersey had a good run, but only advanced to the NBA Finals because the east was watered-down. After all, the Lakers swept Kidd’s Nets in the 2001-02 Finals and the Spurs easily won the 2002-03 championship series in six games. So Payton edges out Kidd because of his team’s success in the NBA Finals. Of course, I admire Kidd’s game and the verdict could be different once he retires.
Who is better Payton or Kidd? Get at us in the comment box below with your thoughts. Click here to read and subscribe to Oly Sandor’s NBA Blog.
Posted by
David
on 04.24.2009 | Good to see GP getting some love here....This is the highest % of folks I’ve ever seen agree with my view....Now I just need to find some folks who agree that Wade Boggs is a better hitter than Tony Gwynn....It’s all about pitch counts.... . | Posted by
Dr. Buddy Love
on 04.22.2009 | This comparsome between Payton and Jason Kidd is close, but not really. Payton by far is the over all better player. Even the great Micheal Jordan himself once admited that payton was the only player that could guard him. . | Posted by
mjames4040
on 04.7.2009 | Jason Kidd is way better than Gary payton. It all comes down to in their prime, which player was way better in a particular field. That would be Jason Kidd. He was a way better passer (one of the greatest of all time) and a way better rebounder. . | Posted by
on 03.6.2009 | I’m from New Jersey and watched all those finals run and I would say Kidd is in my top 3 favorite players along with MJ and magic but I say Gary Payton was better cause thats what Jasn Kidd always says. They grew up in the same neighborhood and payton taught kidd how to play. Everytime they faced off kidd has said that payton is the better and payton does shut him down everytime. Kidd is one of the all time greats and one of my favortie players so I’m gonna laisten to hm when he says payton, in his prime was better. He even says the toss up between stockton and payton isnt close, and that payton was the best point guard of that era. . | Posted by
on 03.6.2009 | Just like deron williams and chris paul right now the GP and J-kidd debate is really close. I’m gonna have to say GP though. Better offensive player, better defender by far. Gary is the best defensive point guard of all time which is backed up by legends like Kevin Johnson and Magic Johnson. His offensive game is much better too. They both are alright shooters but Payton is better. J-Kidd might have a better percentage cause he shoots less. J-Kidds tripple doubles are really impressive but if I was starting a team with either of them in their prime, I take GP without hesitation. And this is coming from a guy who thinks J-Kidd is the best PG in the league RIGHT NOW. But overall in their primes GP was the greatest, . | Posted by
on 03.6.2009 | Payton. Payton. Payton. Better offensive, better defensive, just overall a better basketball player. Don’t get me wrong I lOVE J-KIDD. I think he’s still a great player but I don’t think anyone was better than GP in his prime in the 90’s and the early 2000’s. Shut down defender, consistant 20 point scorer and 7-8 assists every game, and feared absolutely fuckin no one!! ONLY PLAYER IN NBA HISTORY to accumulate 20,000 points, 5,000 rebounds, 8,000 assists and 2,000 steals in a career. I hate ranking players but if I were to rank al time point guards it would go magic, oscar, then the GLOVE!! . | Posted by
MOBAllDay
on 06.21.2008 | Gary "The Glove" Payton for sure. He was a bad, bad man. Check the stats and plus, he was more versatile than Kidd. Kidd has no j, and he’s not clutch. GP is way better. . | Posted by
THRPRZ
on 12.7.2007 | NA GP GOT EM SORRY. ARGUABLY HAD THE BEST NUMBERS AS A POINT GUARD IN THE 90’S AND EARLY 2000’S CHECK OUT THE STATS!! . | Posted by
Gary Payton
on 11.22.2007 | Kidd is better than me, I’ll admit it. We each have our own strengths - me shooting and defense - Kidd passing and rebounding. I have to give the edge to J-dawg because he controls the game with the likes of Magic. He should have received an MVP award. His career has had excellent longevity while mine went south the last few years. Peace, GP . | Posted by
richtown
on 11.21.2007 | My only beef is that how can you say payton "pushed" the chicago bulls to six games but Kidd was a push over when he took the spurs to six games. Plust kidd lead his team to back to back conference championships. I to give give the edge to payton but really only because he has the ring. Kidd played with nobodies payton at least had a young high flying kemp. Honestly ask yourself if you could have either kidd or payton in there prime who would you choose? . | Posted by
KIWI
on 11.21.2007 | Bigtimekicks:2007 Thanksgiving and Christmas $20 Gift ________Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas to you! A very special thanks to all our customers for your patronage. You have helped Bigtimekicks grow into a maga site with the latest and greatest kicks and fashion. Now you automatically get a $20 hat as a gift with any purchase*. While stock lasts.____________Use this code during checkout to get $10 discount: 1057249126319632 . | Posted by
on 11.20.2007 | We should not look too much at Kidd’s triple-doubles. The Nets just simply can’t rebound, the top rebounds right now for the Nets are Kidd, Carter, and Richardson. Payton and Jordan have been on the same number of defensive teams and defensive player of the year (a point guard!). Have you never heard Jordan calling Payton "a bull on defense"? Payton gets my nod. . | Posted by
on 11.20.2007 | Payton, payton, payton . | Posted by
Plankavic
on 11.19.2007 | How do you easily win a series in six games? Even if the East was watered down, would a Payton in his prime have carried the Nets like Kidd did? Doubtful. Kidd made Kenyon Martin look like a superstar. Payton is one of the best ever, but Kidd has the edge. . | Posted by
eLone
on 11.19.2007 | Kidd is third all time in triple doubles behind Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson. You are talking LEGENDS, not just great hall of fame players.No way you can put Payton over Kidd. Payton is a top 150 NBA player of all time, Kidd is in the top 50. . | Posted by
danny
on 11.19.2007 | J-Kidd is a better point guard than Gary Payton...just switch in you mind Payton with Kidd on any of Kidd’s teams, that team would always be worse than if Kidd was running the point . | Posted by
on 11.19.2007 | Sandor isn;t sleeping on Kidd. In think he’s pointing out how great payton was, He dominated defensively and did a great job moving the ball, too. he always posted great dime numbers. Keep in mind Kidd’s best years came when the East was a disaster, a second-rate gong show. On the Whole, Payton was the best PG of the nineties, easily. He won Defensive player of the year as a 6’3 PG, crazy. I vote for payton . | Posted by
J
on 11.19.2007 | Im just going to point out that Kidd didnt just take the Nets to the finals two years in a row. He took them from a 26 win team to 52 win team his first season as a Net. He was ROBBED of the MVP award by Tim Duncan. . | Posted by
JOANNE
on 11.19.2007 | Have to go with J-Kidd. As a point guard, he does it all. He’s a great defender, maybe not as good as Payton, but better than most. Everyone on his team benefits from his skills, K-Mart, Miki Moore. Just look at the contracts they got after playing with J-Kidd. He’s the best! Have to say, though, a few good young PG’s in the making, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. . | Posted by
JackJax
on 11.19.2007 | Most of you including the writer is missing the point, Point Guard that is. The better PG is Kidd hands down, PG, who is decent in scoring, great in defense, great rebounder and assist man, on the break he is a freak Magic is the only comparable, And I will both put them on one team, Kidd the PG and Payton the other guard. . |
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