Oakland’s All-Time Greatest Point Guard: Gary Payton or Jason Kidd?November 18 07 I was raised on Gary Payton posting smaller guards, intimidating opponents through his defense, and talking smack whenever possible. During his prime, Payton was The Man. Quite simply, the best defensive point guard of all-time. On offense, GP combined the best of both worlds; he could score and set-the-table for others.
ESPN is reporting that The Glove has pretty much retired. There is nothing left to accomplish; next stop the basketball Hall of Fame.
Instead of figuring out Payton’s place on the list of all-time greats, HoopsVibe opted for a hometown comparison.
Oakland, like New York, has a history of breeding point guards. In fact, they’ve produced two all-time greats: Payton and Jason Kidd. And basketball fans have spent hours debating between Payton’s defense and Kidd’s passing.
Now it’s your turn. Who’s best: G.P. or J-Kidd? Read the post, make your decision, and get at us in the comment box with your thoughts.
The Argument For Payton:
- Payton had a unique skill-set. He could take any point guard down-low, spread the floor with his mid-range jumper, set-up teammates, and dominate on defense. Few point guards ever possessed such a complete game.
- Payton has been slept-on. His Sonics fought through the ultra-competitive Western Conference to qualify for the NBA Finals during the Michael Jordan era. And the green-and-gold pushed the Bulls to six games. In 2006, Payton won an NBA Title as a back-up for Miami.
- The numbers: All-NBA First Team in 1998 and 2000, All-NBA Second Team in 1995, 1996, 1997, and 1999, All-NBA Third Team in 2001 … All-NBA Defensive Team 1994-2001, NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 1996 … career averages of 16 points, 7 assists, and 2 steals …nine time All-Star.
The Argument Against Payton:
- Payton, fair or not, earned a reputation for causing trouble. As a rookie, he alienated Michael Jordan and even got into a nasty dispute with former Seattle owner Howard Schultz.
- Payton pimped himself out towards the end of his career, playing for several sub-par teams before landing with the Heat.
The Argument For Kidd:
- Kidd is a classic, pass-first point guard similar to Magic Johnson. He involves teammates and makes those around him better. Kidd is also the greatest rebounding point guard of all-time; helping him stack triple-doubles like Oscar Robertson.
- In 2001, Phoenix traded Kidd to New Jersey for Stephon Marbury. Talk about lopsided. With J-Kidd running the offense, the Nets qualified for two NBA Finals, while the Suns sank with Starbury.
- The numbers: All-NBA First Team in 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2004, All-Second Team in 2003 … All-NBA Defensive Team in 1999, 2001, 2002, and 2006, All-NBA Second Defensive Team in 2000, 2003, 2004, and 2005 … career averages of 14 points, 9 assists, and 7 rebounds … 5th all-time in career assists.
The Argument Against Kidd:
- Kidd struggles with his outside shot. Opposing defenses often invite him to fire away from the outside.
- Kidd has had his share of off-court problems. In Dallas, there was the Tony Braxton thing. In Phoenix and New Jersey, he’s had some unfortunate incidents with his wife. With the Nets, he also tried playing GM, forcing the club to sign Alonzo Mourning to a disgusting contract.
The Verdict: Payton by a whisker.
Why: I love both players. Their individual accolades even out and you can disregard Payton’s 2006 NBA Title because he was a reserve. Here’s the difference: Payton’s Sonics pushed the amazing Chicago Bulls in the 1995-96 NBA Finals, competing against one of the all-time great teams. His own Seattle squad could be the best NBA team never to win a championship.
New Jersey had a good run, but only advanced to the NBA Finals because the east was watered-down. After all, the Lakers swept Kidd’s Nets in the 2001-02 Finals and the Spurs easily won the 2002-03 championship series in six games. So Payton edges out Kidd because of his team’s success in the NBA Finals. Of course, I admire Kidd’s game and the verdict could be different once he retires.
Who is better Payton or Kidd? Get at us in the comment box below with your thoughts. Click here to read and subscribe to Oly Sandor’s NBA Blog.
Posted by
danny
on 11.19.2007 | J-Kidd is a better point guard than Gary Payton...just switch in you mind Payton with Kidd on any of Kidd’s teams, that team would always be worse than if Kidd was running the point . | Posted by
on 11.19.2007 | Sandor isn;t sleeping on Kidd. In think he’s pointing out how great payton was, He dominated defensively and did a great job moving the ball, too. he always posted great dime numbers. Keep in mind Kidd’s best years came when the East was a disaster, a second-rate gong show. On the Whole, Payton was the best PG of the nineties, easily. He won Defensive player of the year as a 6’3 PG, crazy. I vote for payton . | Posted by
J
on 11.19.2007 | Im just going to point out that Kidd didnt just take the Nets to the finals two years in a row. He took them from a 26 win team to 52 win team his first season as a Net. He was ROBBED of the MVP award by Tim Duncan. . | Posted by
JOANNE
on 11.19.2007 | Have to go with J-Kidd. As a point guard, he does it all. He’s a great defender, maybe not as good as Payton, but better than most. Everyone on his team benefits from his skills, K-Mart, Miki Moore. Just look at the contracts they got after playing with J-Kidd. He’s the best! Have to say, though, a few good young PG’s in the making, Deron Williams and Chris Paul. . | Posted by
JackJax
on 11.19.2007 | Most of you including the writer is missing the point, Point Guard that is. The better PG is Kidd hands down, PG, who is decent in scoring, great in defense, great rebounder and assist man, on the break he is a freak Magic is the only comparable, And I will both put them on one team, Kidd the PG and Payton the other guard. . | Posted by
Shotcaller15
on 11.19.2007 | "the Spurs easily won the 2002-03 championship series in six games" This series was closer than you think. Nets were up 11 with 6 minutes left in Game 6. . | Posted by
stobex
on 11.19.2007 | it has to be j kidd, because in thier prime gp’s d was only a little better than kidd’s . | Posted by
Matt
on 11.19.2007 | Jason Kidd. Best pg since magic. dominates the game without scoring. makes others better. is unbelievably creative. great leader. . | Posted by
Kirk F
on 11.19.2007 | As and Offensive PG is JKidd. Overall it’s aclose call but JKidd would get my vote. Defensively it goes to GP . | Posted by
Da Glove
on 11.19.2007 | Molskin: 3 point percentage is deceptive ... Payton kept defenses even and honest with his range Kidd does not ... Also Kidd’s defensive stats are better ... please ... Payton made more first team all defenses and WON Defensive Player of the Player as a point guard ... Kidd did not Stats on the defensive end are misleadingLook I’m not dissing Kidd, the author is showing him love, too ... but Payton right now is a little tighter . | Posted by
molskin
on 11.19.2007 | First of all Kidd’s career 3pt percentage is higher, so knocking his outside shot is just wrong. Overall shooting goes to Payton as he could score from anywhere. Defense they are close but Kidd’s defensive stats are better across the board... especially defensive rebounding. Not to mention on a switch, Jkidd is much, much stronger on forwards than Payton. As for running an offense, there are few players in NBA history that are as good as Kidd. Leading the break and finding open teammates is all Kidd. In a game of one on one I would pick Payton, but to lead a team, as a true point guard, it is Kidd all the way. . | Posted by
J-KIDD
on 11.19.2007 | Jason Kidd is the greatest passer of all time(im my mind).Kidd was better overall. . | Posted by
JKidd
on 11.19.2007 | JKidd for sure. Kidd was a legendary high school baller in Oakland, attended a local college at U.C. Berkeley where he led a resurgence of the basketball program culminating in a trip to the sweet sixteen past a very strong Duke team led by Bobby Hurley. I didn’t even realize Payton is from Oakland. All I remember is he played college ball at Oregon State where I don’t remember them winning much in the tournament. As far as their NBA legacy, JKidd is the classic point guard in that he passes first before shooting. He is one of the best passers in NBA history hands down. Gary Payton’s legacy should be his defensive skills, not as a point guard. . | Posted by
i-tuot
on 11.19.2007 | heal no jason kid is like the triple double master, he is the point guard on my team . | Posted by
C.Y. Ellis
on 11.19.2007 | It has to be G.P. for me. He could score from anywhere on the floor, lock down small points and swingmen, and throw opponents off their game even before the tip. He also gave you flat-footed threes, blind alley-oop passes and one of the meanest scowls since Elvis. Averaged over the entire decade, I’d consider Gary the best point of the nineties. . | Posted by
The Glove fits-go GP
on 11.18.2007 | I got to go with Payton O.J. He’s so solid on D, and does everything you could want from a PG. Kidd made the Finals during a watered down era of ball . | Posted by
O.J.
on 11.18.2007 | JKidd couldn’t hold GP’s glove! . |
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