Should Orlando have traded for Vince Carter or resigned Hedo Turkolgu?
September 28 09
In Head-to-Head, we compare players. And you tell us who is best ...
The Set-up: No guts. No glory.
This is a perfect description of the Orlando Magic’s off-season. After all, GM Otis Smith rolled the dice when he acquired the controversial Vince Carter and let closer Hedo Turkoglu leave as a free agent.
Give the Magic credit. They aren’t satisfied with the Eastern Conference banner. And they want the NBA Title.
Here’s the question: Is Orlando closer to a championship after trading for Carter or should they have opened the Amway vaults and resigned Turkoglu? As always, read the post, form your opinion, and get at us in the comment box below.
The Case for Carter …
He has always had talent. Lots of it.
Years ago, Carter captured the imagination of fans with his rare combination of skill and personality. For instance, he created arguably the all-time poster job dunk when he leapfrogged a 7-2 Frenchman at the Sydney Olympics. Such aerial antics made Carter, for a time, the NBA’s biggest star.
However, complacency set in. Surrounded by a posse of enablers and armed with a ‘max’ contract, Carter got lazy on Toronto and his stock plummeted. He soon requested a trade and landed in New Jersey, where he posted strong individual numbers, but never lead the Nets deep in the playoffs.
Carter’s career is a tale of two players. Orlando is hoping he can find his early form and give them an edge in their quest for an NBA Title.
(The leap over France’s Fredric Weis symbolized the best of Carter’s early career.)
The Case for Turkoglu …
He plays his best when everything is on the line.
Each year, Turkoglu wins a few games with his trademark buzzer beaters. In fact, the Turkish swing is the rarest of NBA players in that he wants the ball come crunch time and welcomes the pressure of being the goat or hero.
Unfortunately, Turkoglu often goes MIA, disappearing on his team for quarters and sometimes entire games. Perhaps, it’s the grind of an 82 game season, but many feel the forward hasn’t gotten the most out of his immense talent.
Bottom Line: In a revamped Eastern Conference, Carter has to experience a Raptor renaissance and find his old Toronto form from 1998-2001. Anything less won’t get Orlando back to the NBA Finals and will have the Magic faithful wondering if they should have kept Turkoglu.
Sound off on Head-to-Head in the comment box below: Is Orlando better with Carter? Or should they have stuck with Turkoglu? Follow Oly on HoopsVibe and Twitter. Photo courtesy of Keith Allison.
22 Comments: Should Orlando have traded for Vince Carter or resigned Hedo (...)
Posted by paul on 10.3.2009
uve heard the saying-it looks good on paper-havent u? lol sometimes what looks good on paper doesnt work out in reality...and in reality u cant just look at the stats its how players complement eachother and are efficient in the clutch...all the nets did was-here vince go make the gamewinning shot..geting doubled and passing it to j kidd for an open jumper and trusting it to go in? not gonna happen now is it lol even rj not a great 1 on 1 player its all up2 vince and rj is not a great 3 pt shooter either...who else...pa-------it inside when doubled to jason collins?? the starting center who avgs 1.7ppg lol ? or better yet 40 year old clifford robinson? aha comeon man ask ppl who have wattched the games and then ull realize .
Posted by paul on 10.3.2009
BT...ok i give u that wade won 1 without shaq...as for playing alongside jason kidd and rj..again u r just one of the many ppl that think they know their s---but really dont lol u have to actually watch the games man...then u realize what vince is working with...yea j kidd is a great pg...but richard jefferson is not nearly as good as ppl make him out to be..u have to watch the games to understand...sure he can drop 20-25 points but he doesnt get the buckets u need most in the clutch and plz dont give me literally 1 or 2 game-examples where hes come up big to provide for his entire career lol and in the playoffs hes been known to miss back to back DUNKS lol on back to back possessions aha u have to watch the games to understand man...and personally, although j kidd is a great great pg he cant knock down an open jumper consistently...trust me i watched the nets play and if j kidd could shoot vince could EASILY average 8apg...actually the nets didnt have ne1 who could knock down open jumpers when vince was getting doubled sometimes even tripled especially in the playoffs...as much as u may think u know about the ppl vc has played with u dont u have to watch the games... .
Posted by BT on 10.3.2009
Paul is an idiot. 1. D-wade did win a playoff series without Shaq. Hornets much? 2. All teams need at least 2 all stars to win. Or a plethora of very good but not all star players. Look at the past champions. Lakers, 2 all stars. Detroit 4 all stars. Spurs 3 all stars. Miami 2 all stars. So your point is void. 3. Though VC did not have a good center in New Jersey he had a guy by the name of JASON KIDD. You might have heard of him. He’s a top 10, maybe top 5 pg of all time. Not to mention Richard Jefferson. Last year he had an all star in the form of Devin Harris by his side and couldn’t take NJ to the playoffs. .
Posted by
on 10.3.2009
hedo had intagibles to the team such as the height of a power forward but the skills of a decent guard and ofcrouse his clutch shooting. however i c vince along side rashard as just as hard of a mtchap for most teams. i mean vince is getting older, but he does understand his role, and when motivated (as seen when he was first traded to the nets) he can assimilate to a team with more than one all-star. personally im a vc fan, however hedo proved his worth in orlando, but i don’t believe he can get it done in toronto. .
Posted by paul on 10.1.2009
speaking of robert horry..he is one of the greatest clutch performers of all time...but can he play 42 minutes and drop 50 points n 9 3 pointers with mediocre teammates?? i know ur gonna say i sound dumb for even saying that seeing as how robert horry is a role player...but it is also dumb to compare robert horry to vince from ur perspective in the first place..and AGAIN it comes down 2 the TEAMMATES...first in houston...then los angelos..then san antonio...on every team he played with GREAT players...and in comparing his team history to t-mac and vc....again t-mac has had the teammates but has become injury prone...vince has missed less than 10 games ever since joining new jersey....missing less than 10 games in 5 and a half years? not bad eh lol but either way we shall c what happens this season...if vc does not win i will have no further explanation as far as supporting cast goes...but as of right now these r not excuses theyre facts... .
Posted by paul on 10.1.2009
thats great...but ur also forgetting to compare vcz supporting cast to t-macs—>shane battier one of the defenders in the league, rafer alston, YAO MING, RON ARTEST!! lol what else do u realy need..and i know hes injured but had vince been injured at t-macs rate he woulda been bashed 20 times more than t-mac by every analyst..and thats the way its been for vince his whole career and also t-mac HAS played on a team with the potential to win it all..vince NEVER HAS...up until this upcoming season...i like both t-mac and vc but im a big vc fan from his rookie year as im guessing u r a t-mac fan...im not gonna try 2 change ur opinion u have ur stong points as i have mine .
Posted by Snika on 10.1.2009
You are forgetting when T-Mac pushed the Magic to the best record in the East in the early 2000s. All I’m saying is this, Hedo has less talent than Vince, but was able to show up when it mattered most, last year... and even some the year before. Try this as another example: do you want a random good role player or do you want Robert Horry. Because I want the guy with 19 rings. There is a difference between a great player that hasn’t been anywhere, and a very good player that HAS been somewhere. .
Posted by paul on 09.30.2009
i know they both have more clutch performances in the season than in the playoffs...considering the season is 82 games....and the most games t-mac has ever gotten to show his clutch ability in the playoffs each year is a max of 7 games...while carter has gotten a max of 14 games in the playoffs to show his clutch ability....and while both have missed clutch shots in the playoffs, both have made clutch shots in the playoffs as well...just like the regular season...u miss some u make some...i cant speak for t-mac bcz he has had legitimate teammates but has become way too injury prone while the injury prone tag has come off vince now but he has never had a legitimate team...both great players though .
Posted by
on 09.30.2009
Vince is most def on the Hot Seat with Orlando. Will he respond well to this? His history in the league suggests otherwise! .
Posted by Snika on 09.30.2009
We could talk about Vince just like we talk about T-Mac. Phenomenal talent, electrifying to watch, no question - MVP for the month numerous times... but usually fail to deliver when it matters most. There are so many clutch highlights from these two, but it is ALWAYS in the regular season. This is Vince’s first legit chance to get into the finals. And the only argument for Hedo on this board is this... if the Magic don’t get to the finals again, the Hedo exit should be considered a bad decision. They have added numerous depth players and the only big change is a Vince for Hedo swap. Orlando will have high expections this year. .
Posted by O.Sandor on 09.29.2009
Hi Paul. Thanks for your response and passion.
Everything you said may be true. But Bottom line: pro players, especially those earning max contracts like Vince Carter, have an obligation to always give their best effort. They can control this. There is no excuse for him not doing so, regardless of the situation. And it is unforgivable for him to admit that he didn’t give his best effort publicly. Hopefully, he doesn’t make the same error in Orlando and the Magic make a competitive Eastern Conference even better.
Thanks again. .
Posted by paul on 09.29.2009
sorry to keep going here lol i know ppl always say-vince carter is not a winner etc...heres a fact for all those ppl...dwayne wade-with shaq(1 championship) without...not even one playoff round winkobe bryant....with shaq(all star center) 3 championships...with pau gasol (all star center) 1 championship...without an all star big man-not even a first round playoff win...vince carter....in toronto-best big man (antonio davis-1 year all star reserve...decent big man)....in new jersey- best big man-mikki moore(free agent for various seasons while being signed to various different teams for single seasons) or jason collins(starting center averaging less than 2ppg...1.7ppg i think it was:S)just wanted to put all of this out there...the rest is ur opinion .
Posted by paul on 09.29.2009
THEN...gets traded to new jersey...wins various player of the week and month awards while being arguably the most consistent and yes perhaps THEE BEST player in the NBA after the trade that season..yes folks, i said it, vince carter- the best player in the league at one point...dont kill me now by comparing him to hedo lol just check the numbers...and all of this upsets the toronto raptor fans even more...not me though, i was just glad to be watching summore vinsanity aha not to mention the legendary performances he has in toronto..dont get me wrong i wanna c the raptors do well...but as always we continue to overhype and..overhype....anddd overhype lol and we never learn...first chris bosh who is a very good player but not a great player...then jermaine o’neal...and now its gonna happen again with hedo which does upset me but people dont watch games and jump bandwagons which i personally will never jump on with them lol im simply more mature than that...vince carters first team-toronto raptors, becomes greatest raptor of all time...gets traded to nj-in his first full season was the teams breaks the record for single season scoring and becomes arguably the greatest nj net of all time... .
Posted by paul on 09.29.2009
heres the thing...im from toronto myself and i was somewhat upset with the way things ended...but if u think about it...in his six and a half years in toronto..hes had 4 coaches...not fun to be the franchise when the learning process for the team changes every season...and his best big man ever in toronto was antonio davis( cb4 was still young in 2004)...but in the end he put fans in the seats, won rookie of the year, put on the greatest slam dunk show of all time, was the number 1 votegetter for consecutive seasons and put toronto on the map.... .
Posted by O.Sandor on 09.29.2009
Hi GM For Hire and Paul ... Thanks for commenting. Good posts, too. Paul, this is my issue with Vince: when it gets tough he disappears. In Toronto, he admitted publicly to not giving his all. He was a cancer on that team, telling reporters he wouldn’t dunk anymore and having a negative influence on CB4.
What happens in Orlando? Remember, his cousin,T-Mac, was supposed to have a happy ending with the Magic. After all, he’s from Florida, too, but McGrady got run out of town!! I hope it works out, but I guess what I’m saying is that Carter needs to prove his worth before I’ll buy-in!
However, as I mention, on paper, it looks good, if Carter finds his old form! Thanks for commenting. .
Posted by gm 4 hire on 09.29.2009
I hear you paul! I don’t think Hedo is a better palyer than Carter at all! Hedo is a system player! VC is a animal...when he wants to be! O Sandor I agree Carters leadership skills have been questioned but so was Kobe’s leadership skills a couple years ago when he wanted a trade out of L.A! I think being back in his home town will have a huge affect on his game. He will play a great role in the magics leadership role this year. Yes his contract is alot more than hedo but it is also up in 2010. In the end if Carter doesnt work out the magic could end up with d wade you never know.. .
Posted by paul on 09.29.2009
the fact that this is actually a dispute...the fact that ppl actually have to "think" about whos the better player between hedo and vince carter is an absolute joke...and this proves that u ppl dont actually watch the games just jump the bandwagon of what it is u hear...everytime anyone compares hedo to vince carter...it proves vince carter is the most underrated player in nba history .
Posted by
on 09.29.2009
Carter must really produce for Orlando not to look foolish after dropping Turkoglu!!! .
Posted by Snika on 09.29.2009
I don’t think Hedo will get as far as he did last year. But this forum proves how underrated he is... On the court, offensively, and at the end of the game - HE WAS THEIR GUY! Not Dwight, not Jameer, not Lewis... it was ALWAYS in Hedo’s hands. He is a playmaker and many times, had ice in his veins. This year will change a lot, and think about this: If they don’t get back to the finals... did Vince fail? I think that Orlando was such a surprise last year, that we really don’t know how to gauge what these changes will do. I think they will be more fun to watch this year, and will receive tremendous publicity, but I don’t know if they will be better off without Hedo. .
Posted by Jake on 09.29.2009
I think that the Magic were smart to not resign Hedo. Personally I think he is very overrated and Toronto gave him way to much money. On the other hand Vinsanity has issues as well, particularly on defense and occasionally has very poor shot selection. Honestly I see this move in the same light as the Ariza-Artest swap with LA and Houston. Orlando isnt necessarily upgrading but getting a player of roughly the same value that will still contribute. Toronto is deinfitely upgrading with Turk at the small forward if you factor in last season, but I still feel he’s overpaid. In the end I think these two players are ultimately very similar, both have about the same wear and tear and while not an identical skill set, each has glaring flaws. Toronto definitely upgraded, the Magic stayed relatively the same in terms of the swap. .
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About Oly Sandor
Daily take on NBA
Oly Sandor is an NBA analyst and sports journalist based out of Vancouver, Canada.After years of the free-lance game, Oly Sandor is bringing his unique brand of NBA analysis exclusively to (...) More
In Head-to-Head, we compare players. And you tell us who is best ... 